General question on Delphi for PHP

[Holgerwa]

I am trying to get started with Delphi for PHP for some time now, but find it extremely difficult to "work around things that don't work".

After reading many posts in this forum, I get the impression that one should be happy if any given function really works.

Being a Delphi programmer, I am a bit concerned that Delphi for PHP + all the VCL components + AJAX + ...everything else that comes in the box, is not working reliably.
I am used to the programming langauge working as expected and reliably.

Either I still don't get how things work, or Delphi for PHP is only supposed to be a professional development product, but in reality it's more like a toy and should not be used for commercial apps.

Please believe me, I "want" to like Delphi for PHP very much! I also want to use it for commercial apps, but having to do a very simple task, then finding out that it doesn't work as expected, then trying workarounds for hours before reading that this or that scenario just doesn't work will bring me (and others) in big trouble when the time comes that apps must be delivered.

Please, help me to like Delphi for PHP!!

Please tell me that it's just me and the product is reliable and professional and I just need to keep trying.

[405hp]

I have been able to do everything that I have wanted. It is just php and js afterall...

There is a steep learning curve to this product, but once you 'get it' it becomes very easy imo. It is just like turning on a light switch when it happens.

Most everyone who gives it the thumbs down either uses parts of it that are unfinished or were looking for the php for dummies approach. Unfortunately the d4php approach requires more knowledge then what the sales pitch alludes to for you to get the full effect. Also don't let the Delphi name fool you. This has nothing in common with Delphi (pascal) other then some stuff to confuse you. You are better off not knowing anything about Delphi (pascal) IMO.

Coming from the Delphi for pascal side we are used to things mostly working as expected because we don't 'drop' in and out of the program. And with the carry over of the 'Delphi' name we are not really told that isn't how it works. What happens is nothing is 'cut and dried' with php html and javascript. There are a thousand ways a web server can be set up and no way to be certain something I make is going to work on your server. Same goes for the browsers. Pretty much every one of them has some differences to them in how they interpret things. Database differences... the same.


The vcl has it's limitations but once you learn a bit about it, it is quite good. The vcl is like a buffet, there is a lot of dishes to choose from but some of them don't go very well with others. You do need to find that out for yourself though.

The problem with tutorials is that the little basic things are there, mostly in the samples folder, the problem is everyone wants to do something unique and when a newbie is blazing the trail they get lost fast.

For a new user I recommend:
Read this first
Overview of PHP User Interface Design - Delphi for PHP Documentation Wiki

Then all of the instruction is done through examples. see Sample Applications - Delphi for PHP Documentation Wiki

Most of them are available here also VCL for PHP :: PHP Web Application Development Framework from the sample menu item.

There is also a faq FAQ - Delphi for PHP Documentation Wiki


After trying some of these you can search here on your questions as we probably have done most of the basic ones and if you don't find an answer then ask away.

[Holgerwa]

That was the answer I was hoping for!
Thanks for all the links. Now that I know the product can do what it's supposed to, I'll keep looking for the "light switch".

[AzureCrystal]

I also LOVE "the promise" of D4PHP. My suggestion is to download the trial program which is not limited, see if it will work for you. Yes you can do some WYSIWYG, DELPHI/ASP.NET type forms and with some Php/Javascript knowledge work around some of the really annoying bugs, BUT, and this is a big but, once you complete a a project you may find it simply too slow for a commercial application. I did one for a client(screens and some of the code posted here) who paid for an online accounting system for realty, and it was so dreadfully slow we had to port it to VB6.... Still hoping D4PHP grows up one day, frankly I am amazed nothing has happened in the past 2 years...

Originally Posted by Holgerwa

That was the answer I was hoping for!
Thanks for all the links. Now that I know the product can do what it's supposed to, I'll keep looking for the "light switch".

[405hp]

Loading up all of the libraries is what is slow. Any time you do a postback you are slow again. I only use it to create the main application and then do everything with basicAjax and it rivals a desktop application.

You also have to make sure your server is setup to zip up all files it downloads. Use yslow to help you with that part.

[AzureCrystal]

Originally Posted by 405hp

I only use it to create the main application and then do everything with basicAjax and it rivals a desktop application.

"It" being D4PHP or postback methods ??

[405hp]

d4php. I almost never do a postback unless it is the best way for that particular thing I'm trying to do.